30 May 2004: Reading The Diamond-Cutter Sutra (3)

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Buddhist Hour
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Buddhist Hour Script 331 for Sunday 30 May 2004

This script is entitled: Reading The Diamond-Cutter Sutra

Today we would like to offer you one of the teachings provided at our Centre - the Diamond Cutter Sutra taught by the Buddha Shakyamuni.

We pay our deepest respect and send our heartfelt gratitude to Geshe Michael Roach and the entire lineage of Teachers extending back to the Buddha Shakyamuni, for providing this excellent teaching and the means for us to receive this teaching.

This teaching is Course VI of The Asian Classics Institute's Correspondence Courses. Taught by Geshe Michael Roach, it is a complete Study Course consisting of the audio recordings from the original class series held in New York USA, along with the supporting materials from each class. The entire course may be downloaded from the web site address www.world-view.org

We commenced this course on 7 May 2004 and study one class a week, each Friday evening from 8:00pm onwards. The course has eleven classes.

We would like to read the English translation of the Diamond-Cutter Sutra to you, which are reading in parts over three weeks. Today is the third day of the reading of this sutra.

Please go to our website at www.bdcublessings.net.au to read the first two parts of this sutra.

We request the blessings of the Buddha Lineage holders for the Diamond Cutter Sutra so that we may come to fully understand the Sutra.

The Buddha Lineage holders are:

Buddha
Maitreya 500BC
Manjushri 500BC
Asanga 350AD
Nagajuna 200AD
Haribhadra 800AD
Chandrakirti 650AD
Suvarnadripa 1000AD (lived in Indonesia)
Atisha 982 - 1054AD
Drompton Je 1005 - 1054AD
Geshe Drolungpa 1100AD
Je Tsong Kapa 1357 - 1419
Ngawang Drakpa C.1410
Gyaltsab Je 1364 - 1432
Kedrup Je 1365 - 1430
His Holiness The 3rd Dalai Lama 1543 - 1588
The 1st Panchen Lama 1567 - 1662
His Holiness The 5th Dalai Lama 1617 - 1682
The 2nd Panchen Lama 1663 - 1737
Pabonka Rinpoche 1878 - 1941
Kyabje Trijang Rinpoche 1901 - 1981
His Holiness The 14th Dalai Lama 1935 -
Khen Rinpoche Geshe Lobsang Tharchin 1921 -
Geshe Michael Roach 1952 -

This Sutra is spoken by the Buddha answering questions put to Him by Subhuti, a junior Monk who lived at the time of the Buddha.

We begin with the prayer that is done at the start of each teaching.

Offering The Mandala

Here is the great Earth,
Filled with the smell of incense,
Covered with a blanket of flowers,

The Great Mountain,
The Four Continents,
Wearing a jewel,
Of the Sun, and Moon.

In my mind I make them
The Paradise of a Buddha,
And offer it all to You.

By this deed
May every living being
Experience
The Pure World.

Idam guru ratna mandalakam niryatayami.

Refuge and The Wish

I go for refuge
To the Buddha, Dharma, and Sangha
Until I achieve enlightenment.

By the power
Of the goodness that I do
In giving and the rest,

May I reach Buddhahood
For the sake
Of every living being

Dedication of the Goodness of a deed

By the goodness
Of what I have just done
May all beings

Complete the collection
Of merit and wisdom,

And thus gain the two
Ultimate bodies
That merit and wisdom make.

A Buddhist Grace

I offer this
To the Teacher
Higher than any other,
The precious Buddha.

I offer this
to the protection
Higher than any other,
The precious Dharma.

I offer this
To the guides
Higher than any other,
The precious Sangha.

I offer this
To the places of refuge,
To the Three jewels,
Rare and supreme.

Here begins our reading of the third part of the Diamond Cutter Sutra.

***

Then the Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, what do you think? Suppose you had a quantity of Ganges Rivers equal themselves in number to the number of drops of water in the Ganges River. And suppose that every one of the drops of water in all these rivers became a separate planet. Would this be very many planets?

And Subhuti respectfully replied,
O Conqueror, it is indeed so: that would be a great many planets.

And the Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, I know, perfectly, the separate mindstreams-each of the thoughts-that each of the total number of living beings in each of these planets possesses.

***

Why is it so? Because, o Subhuti, that thing we call a "mindstream' is a mindstream that the One Thus Gone has said does not even exist. And this is precisely why we can call it a "mindstream.”

And why is it so? Because, o Subhuti, a mind which is past is non-existent. And a mind in the future is non-existent. And a mind that is going on at the present is non-existent as well.

O Subhuti, what do you think? Suppose someone were to take all the planets of this great world system, a system with a thousand of a thousand of a thousand planets, and cover them all with the seven kinds of precious substances, and offer them to someone. Would that son or daughter of noble family create many great mountains of merit from such a deed?

And Subhuti respectfully replied,
O Conqueror, many would it be. O You who have Gone to Bliss, it would be many.

***

The Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, thus it is, and thus is it. That son or daughter of noble family would indeed create many great mountains of merit from such a deed. And yet, o Subhuti, if these great mountains of merit were in fact great mountains of merit, then the One Thus Gone would never call these great mountains of merit "great mountains of merit.”

O Subhuti, what do you think? Should we ever consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they have attained the physical form of an Enlightened Being?

***

And Subhuti respectfully replied,
O Conqueror, it is not so: we should never consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they have attained the physical form of an Enlightened Being. And why is it so? Because, o Conqueror, the attainment of the physical form of an Enlightened Being-this thing we call the "attainment of the physical form of an Enlightened Being-is an attainment that the One Thus Gone has said could never exist. And this is precisely why we can even call it the "attainment of the physical form of an Enlightened Being.”

Then the Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, what do you think? Should we ever consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they possess the exquisite marks of an Enlightened Being?

***

And Subhuti respectfully replied,

O Conqueror, it is not so: we should never consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they possess the exquisite marks of an Enlightened Being. And why is it so? Because the marks of an Enlightened Being which have been described by the One Gone Thus are marks of an Enlightened Being that the One Gone Thus has said could never exist. And this is precisely why we can even call them "marks of an Enlightened Being.”

And the Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, what do you think? Does the One Thus Gone ever think to himself, "Now I will teach the Dharma?" If you think he does, then I tell you, o Subhuti, that you should never see it that way, for there doesn't exist any Dharma that the One Thus Gone ever teaches.

***

Subhuti, anyone who ever says that "The One Thus Gone teaches the Dharma" is talking about something that doesn't even exist, and is completely mistaken, and is denying who I am.

Why is it so? Because, o Subhuti, the teaching of the Dharma that you are thinking of when you say "teaching of the Dharma" is a "teaching of the Dharma" that does not exist at all.

And then the junior monk again addressed the Conqueror, in the following words:
O Conqueror, will there be, in days to come, any living being who ever hears a teaching of the Dharma like this and who believes completely what it says?

***

And the Conqueror replied,
O Subhuti, such beings will not be living beings, nor will they not be a living being. Why is it so? Because, o Subhuti, the things we call "living beings" are living beings that the Ones Gone Thus have said are not. And that is precisely why we can call them "living beings.”

O Subhuti, what do you think? Is there any such thing as One Gone Thus reaching their total enlightenment within the unsurpassed, perfect, and total state of a Buddha?

The junior monk Subhuti replied,
O Conqueror, there could never be any such thing as the One Gone Thus reaching their total enlightenment within the unsurpassed, perfect, and total state of a Buddha.

***

And the Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, thus it is, and thus is it. There is no such thing at all: it is non-existent. There is no such thing, not in the least: it is something non-existent. And that is precisely why we can even call it the "unsurpassed, perfect, and total state of a Buddha.”

I say to you further, o Subhuti, that this thing is completely equal; there is nothing at all about it which is not equal. This too is precisely why we can call it the "unsurpassed, perfect, and total state of a Buddha." This unsurpassed, perfect, and total state of a Buddha is "completely equal" in being something without a self, and without a living being, and without something that lives, and without any person. Every single thing which is virtue leads to this total enlightenment.

O Subhuti, the One Gone Thus has said that these same things of virtue that we are talking about when we speak of "things of virtue" are things of virtue that don't even exist. And this is precisely why we can call them "things of virtue.”

***

And I say to you further, o Subhuti:
Think of all the number of universal mountains that you would find on all the planets of this great world system: a system with a thousand of a thousand of a thousand planets. And suppose that some daughter or son of noble family were to pile together the same number of heaps of the seven precious things, each heap the same size as the mountain, and offer it as a gift to someone.

Suppose that someone else were to take up, and teach to others, even so little as a single verse of four lines from this perfection of wisdom. I tell you, o Subhuti, that the mountain of merit created by the first person would not come to even a hundredth part of the mountain of merit created by the second; it would not come to any of the parts we spoke of before, all the way up to saying that there would be no reason to attempt any comparison between the two.

Subhuti, what do you think? Does the One Thus Gone ever think to himself, "I am going to free all living beings"? If you think that they do, then I tell you, o Subhuti, you should never see it like this. And why is it so? Because, o Subhuti, there is no living being at all that Those Gone Thus could ever free.

***

And if, o Subhuti, the One Gone Thus ever did free some living being, then he would be grasping to some self of the One Gone Thus, and to some living being, or to something that lives, or to some person of the One Gone Thus.

And the One Gone Thus, o Subhuti, has said that this very act that we call "grasping to some self" is a grasping to this that doesn't even exist. It is, in fact, something that common beings, those who are still children, grasp to.

And these same common beings, o Subhuti, those who are still children, are beings that the One Gone Thus has said never existed at all. And that's precisely why we can call them "common beings.”

O Subhuti, what do you think? Should we consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they possess exquisite marks?

***

And Subhuti respectfully replied,
O Conqueror, it is not so: we should never consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they possess the exquisite marks of One Gone Thus.

And the Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, thus it is, and thus is it. We should never consider someone the One Gone Thus just because they possess exquisite marks. If we were, Subhuti, to consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they possessed exquisite marks, then a Wheel Emperor would have to be One Gone Thus. As such, we should never consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they possess exquisite marks.

***

Then the junior monk Subhuti addressed the Conqueror in the following words:
As far as I grasp the thrust of what the Conqueror has said, we should never consider someone One Gone Thus simply because they possess exquisite marks.

At this point then the Conqueror spoke these lines of verse:
Whoever sees me in things you can see,
Whoever knows me in sounds to hear,
Is living in error, has given me up;
People like this cannot see me at all.

***

See that Buddhas are the nature of things
Our guides are the Dharma bodies.
Those for whom this nature of things
Is beyond the things they know
Will never be able to know.

***

O Subhuti, what do you think? Suppose a person thought to themselves that someone was One Gone Thus, a Destroyer of the Foe, a Perfect and Total Buddha, just because they possessed the exquisite marks of an Enlightened Being. Subhuti, you should never think the way they do. This is because, Subhuti, of the fact that there is no such thing as the exquisite marks meaning that One Gone Thus, a Destroyer of the Foe, a Perfect and Total Buddha, has reached their total enlightenment within the unsurpassed, perfect, and total state of an Enlightened Being.

O Subhuti, suppose you were to think to yourself that those who have entered well into the way of the bodhisattva ever deny any particular thing that exists, or that they imagine that there is nothing which exists. You should never, Subhuti, think that this is so. Those who have entered well into the way of the bodhisattva never deny any particular thing, nor do they imagine that there is nothing which exists.

***

And I say to you again, o Subhuti: Suppose that some son or daughter of noble family were to take planets equal in number to the drops of water in the Ganges River, and cover them with the seven kinds of precious things, and offer it as a gift to someone.

Suppose on the other hand that a particular bodhisattva were able to gain the state of mastery towards the fact that no object in the universe has any self- nature, nor ever begins. This second person would create from his act mountains of merit that are infinitely greater than those of the first.

I say to you again, o Subhuti, that bodhisattvas never gather in to themselves great mountains of merit.

***

And the junior monk Subhuti then said,
O Conqueror, do you mean to say that bodhisattvas should never try to gather into themselves great mountains of merit?

And the Conqueror replied,
Of course they should gather them in, Subhuti. But they should never gather them in in the wrong way. And this is precisely why we can call it "gathering them in.”

And suppose, o Subhuti, that someone was to say that "the One Thus Gone goes, and comes; and he stands, and sits; and he lies down as well." Such a person has failed to understand what I am teaching you here.

***

Why is it so, Subhuti? Because the one we call "One Thus Gone" neither goes anywhere nor comes from anywhere. And this is precisely why we can call them "One Gone Thus, a Destroyer of the Foe, a Perfect and Totally Enlightened Ones.”

And I say again to you, Subhuti. Suppose some daughter or son of noble family were to take all the atoms of dust that made up all the planets in the great world system, of a thousand of a thousand of a thousand planets. And suppose for example that they were to crush each of these atoms into a pile of even tinier particles that are equal in number to all these atoms of the planets.

What do you think, Subhuti? Would the tiny particles in these piles be very many?

***

And Subhuti respectfully replied,
O Conqueror, it is so: the tiny particles in those piles would be very great in number. And why is it so? Because, o Conqueror, if such a pile were even possible, then the Conqueror would never have even bothered to mention any piles of tiny atoms.

And why is it so? Because the One Thus Gone has said that the "piles of tiny atoms" described by the Conqueror are piles that could never exist. And this is precisely why we can call them "piles of tiny atoms.”

And the One Thus Gone has also said that these "planets on a great world system, a system of a thousand of a thousand of a thousand planets," are planets that could never exist. This is precisely why we can call them "planets in a great world system, a system of a thousand of a thousand of a thousand planets.”

***

Why is it so? Because, o Conqueror, if there were any such thing as a planet, then one would have to be grasping it as one whole solid thing. And the One Thus Gone has said that the "tendency to grasp things as one whole solid thing" described by the One Thus Gone is a kind of grasping that could never exist anyway. And this is precisely why we can call it "grasping something as a whole solid thing.”

And then the Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, this very tendency to grasp things as one whole solid thing is nominal; the thing is beyond all words. Nonetheless those who are still children-common beings-hold on to it.

***

And suppose, o Subhuti, that someone were to say: "The One Thus Gone talks about seeing something as a self. The One Thus Gone talks about seeing something as a living being. The One Thus Gone talks about seeing something as something that lives. And the One Thus Gone talks too about seeing something as a person." Do you think, Subhuti, that this would ever be said by someone who was speaking correctly?

And Subhuti respectfully replied,
O Conqueror, it would not be so. O You who have Gone to Bliss, that would not be so. And why is it so? Because, o Conqueror, the One Gone Thus has said that this same seeing something as a self described by the One Gone Thus is a way of seeing things that would never exist anyway. And this is precisely why we can call it "seeing something as a self.”

***

Then the Conqueror said,
O Subhuti, this is how those who have entered well into the way of the bodhisattva should understand every single object in the universe. This is how they should see these things; this is how they should think of them. They should never live in a way where they conceive of anything as an object at all, and thus should they think of things.

Why is it so? Because, o Subhuti, the One Thus Gone has said that conceiving of something as an object, this thing we call "conceiving of something as something," is a conception that doesn't exist anyway. And this is precisely why we can call it "conceiving of something as something.”

And I say to you again, o Subhuti: Suppose some great bodhisattva were to take a countless number of planets, a number of planets beyond all calculation, and cover them with the seven kinds of precious things, and offer them as a gift to someone.

***

Suppose on the other hand that some son or daughter of noble family were to take up even so little as a single verse of four lines from this perfection of wisdom, or hold it, or read it, or comprehend it, or teach it to others in detail, and accurately. They would from their act create infinitely more great mountains of merit, beyond all count, and beyond all calculation.

And what would it be, to teach this perfection accurately to others? It would be just the same as not teaching it to others. And that is precisely why we can call it "teaching it to others, and accurately.”

***

See anything
Brought about by causes
As like a star,
An obstruction of the eye,
A lamp, an illusion,
The dew, or a bubble;
A dream, or lightning,
Or else a cloud.

When the Conqueror had spoken these words, then the elder Subhuti rejoiced. And so did the bodhisattvas there rejoice, and all four groups of disciples-the monks, and the nuns, and the men with lifetime vows, and the women with lifetime vows.

***

The entire world rejoiced: the gods, and humans, and near-gods, and spirits too. They rejoiced, and they sang their praises of what the Conquering One had spoken.

***

This then is the conclusion of An Exalted Sutra of the Greater Way on the Perfection of Wisdom, entitled "The Diamond Cutter.”

The translation of this sutra from Sanskrit into Tibetan, and its update to newer translation standard, were completed by the Indian master Shilendra Bodhi and Yeshe De.

The translation from Tibetan into English was completed by the American geshe Lobsang Chunzin, Michael Roach, with the assistance of the American woman with lifetime vows, Christie McNally, in the gardens of Prince Jeta, during the opening days of the third millenium after Christ.

***

Here ends our reading of The Diamond Cutter Sutra from pages 115 through 161 of the leaf version.

This completes our reading of this sutra over three weeks, in a total of three parts.

May you come to see emptiness.
May you come to full enlightenment and Buddhahood for the sake of all sentient beings.
May you be well and happy.
May all beings be well and happy.

Today's Buddhist Hour Broadcast script was prepared by Anita M. Hughes, Julian Bamford, Julie O'Donnell, Evelin Halls and Leanne Eames.

Reference

The Diamond-Cutter Sutra. Course VI. Level 1 of Middle way philosophy (Madhyamika) The Asian Classics Institute. Taught by Geshe Michael Roach New York USA online at www.world-view.org.

"Diamond Cutter Sutra" An Exalted Sutra of the Greater Way on the Perfection of Wisdom.

Translation of this sutra from Sanskrit into Tibetan, and its update into the newer translation standard, were completed by the Indian master Shilendra Bodhi and Yeshe De. The translation from Tibetan into English was completed by the American Geshe Lobsang Chunzin, Michael Roach, with the assistance of the American woman with lifetime vows, Christine McNally, in the gardens of Prince Jeta, during the opening days of the third millennium after Christ.

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